Prayers to continue at city council meetings

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Posted: Sunday, August 7, 2011 10:46 am | Updated: 2:27 pm, Mon Aug 8, 2011.

Prayers will continue to be said before city council meetings.

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Welcome to the discussion.

50 comments:

  • Beau McElhattan posted at 8:05 am on Mon, Aug 15, 2011.

    Beau McElhattan Posts: 87

    Donna,
    The council email addresses are here:
    http://sandspringsok.org/category.php?cat=1029

    You can email me privately for the city manager's email address, too, if you wish.
    bmcelhattan [at] gmail

    You can also call 918-246-2500 and be redirected to the person who could help you with your request.

     
  • donna posted at 1:41 pm on Sun, Aug 14, 2011.

    donna Posts: 1

    So I have a Wiccan friend who is going to ask permission to open a City Meeting with a prayer. Any Satanists out there who would also like to open the Council Meeting with a prayer? An Atheist who may like to open with a couple of Scientific facts?

    I think religion should be left in the privacy of the church or home where it belongs as one religions' own holy book requires. I even disagree with people using god in their business advertising and I will not frequent such business. Rankin and Drug Warehouse are good examples of businesses I no longer patronize because they use god as an advertising ploy.

    So I ask the City Council, which meeting, date and time would you schedule for me to open with my own religious prayer?

     
  • Kaysea posted at 5:31 pm on Thu, Aug 11, 2011.

    Kaysea Posts: 234

    I never said the prayer had to be a Christian prayer. I have posted that I am open to all faiths. Yes I am Baptist but I have family and friends who are Catholic and Jewish. I don't feel that one religion is any better than the other. I have no problem with rotating.
    I don't know the city councilors faith, so that might be a problem. You would have to schedule someone to come in for a specific faith. I feel that our city and country needs all the help it can get. A little prayer goes along way. It can't hurt.

     
  • Bobby P posted at 11:21 am on Thu, Aug 11, 2011.

    Bobby P Posts: 156

    Beau,

    Libby seems like an intelligent person, however she really doesn't know what she is talking about in this situation. she claims to have firsthand knowledge of prayers at the meetings, and i think anyone who has attended a city counsel meeting (and that number is low) would question whether or not an 18 has really ever attended to be able to make claims like that. i've responded to her article so i won't waste space here.

    JoyLin,

    do you really expect me to be dumb enough to believe that if they didn't say something like "in Jesus name we pray" that you would be completely supportive of prayers at the meetings? come on lets not kid each other. and yes, if you can't ignore a prayer, then you have a very weak mind. its not hard, just think of something else, well i guess thinking could be hard for some.

    "I don't need to depend upon invisible forces as I learn how to accept responsibility for my actions in life. I am a humanist. I believe we must work hard for what we have and we are not just "blessed" out of nowhere with no effort on our part. Give yourself more credit than that."

    this is probably the stupidest description of Christianity, or really any other religion, that i have ever heard. first of all the first sentence doesn't even make sense, seriously i don't even know where you were going with that. second, i dont know any Christian who believes that they don't have to work hard because God is going to bless them out of nowhere. the fact that you think that shows your complete lack of knowledge of this subject.

    let me post the 1st Amendment because people don't seem to know what it says:

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    please point out the violation.

     
  • Reality posted at 8:47 am on Thu, Aug 11, 2011.

    Reality Posts: 104

    JoyLin,
    You are coming into this conversation late and obviously without key pieces of information. BeauBeau kept linking back to his personal website and wanting us to read various things. One of those things was a getting-to-know-me piece that he has since deleted. In that piece, he blamed all of his actions on his ex-wife. He said that he undertook this crusade because Robin said that he a bad person and people believe it. That is why his past was brought into it. He brought his past into it.

     
  • JoyLin posted at 8:15 am on Thu, Aug 11, 2011.

    JoyLin Posts: 9

    Bobby,

    Clearly, you did not understand my message.

    I am not saying do not continue to pray. We are asking to STOP INVOKING A SPECIFIC DEITY, which then becomes exclusionary of other religions. I didn't think that idea was too difficult to grasp, but apparently, I was wrong. So it bears repeating.

    Also - weak minded, eh?

    I don't need to depend upon invisible forces as I learn how to accept responsibility for my actions in life. I am a humanist. I believe we must work hard for what we have and we are not just "blessed" out of nowhere with no effort on our part. Give yourself more credit than that.

    I am not a "crybaby" for supporting Beau. We are supporting the constitution. You should want to do the same. You want every other freedom in that document - except when it comes to religion. Then it gets too personal for you to think clearly. But then again, critical thinking was probably never your strong point.

    Good day. [wink]

     
  • Beau McElhattan posted at 11:45 pm on Wed, Aug 10, 2011.

    Beau McElhattan Posts: 87

    Bobby,
    I'll leave it to a teenage graduate of Charles Page High School (2011) to completely refute and denigrate your mind:

    http://sandspringsleader.com/opinion/letter-separation-of-church-state-best-way-to-secure-religious/article_327e4ed2-c36a-11e0-ae99-001cc4c002e0.html

     
  • Bobby P posted at 10:03 pm on Wed, Aug 10, 2011.

    Bobby P Posts: 156

    JoyLin,

    equality to you means we must honor your beliefs and not our own, i get it. if prayer makes you uncomfortable or makes you feel excluded then you are a very very weak minded person. its so easy to just ignore the prayer if you don't believe in God, but i guess that takes too much mental effort for some people. people need to stop acting like a simple prayer at the beginning is somehow exclusionary or offensive, get over yourselves, nobody likes a crybaby, especially an adult crybaby.

     
  • JoyLin posted at 9:17 pm on Wed, Aug 10, 2011.

    JoyLin Posts: 9

    My first comment made it seem like I was directly speaking to Kaysea regarding dredging up Beau's past - to clarify - that was NOT to Kaysea specifically.

     
  • JoyLin posted at 9:07 pm on Wed, Aug 10, 2011.

    JoyLin Posts: 9

    And bringing up Beau's personal past - as far as his high school days or his ex-wife - IS PETTY and completely off subject. It is a weak attempt to make him look bad. It has nothing to do with the matter at hand, but I see that is the only way you guys know how to have an adult discussion...

     
  • JoyLin posted at 9:04 pm on Wed, Aug 10, 2011.

    JoyLin Posts: 9

    "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Ghandi

    Beau does not need your prayer Kaysea. He isn't "starting trouble."

    If Beau's past is the only thing you can all dredge up to try to make him back down, then you are not very Christian are you?

    We are asking for equality. We are not personally attacking anyone.

    The lot of you are getting angry and defensive - we are not asking you stop praying. We are asking you stop invoking JESUS which IS A VIOLATION OF THE CONSTITUTION because it is favoring Christianity over other religions. We are asking for SECULAR prayer. But I favor the moment of silence to be honest.

    "The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded upon the Christian Religion." 1797 the treaty of Tripoli, signed by President Washington, and approved by the Senate of the United States

     
  • Kaysea posted at 8:04 pm on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Kaysea Posts: 234

    Beau I will pray for you. You must have a troubled soul and in some kind of pain to want to start trouble all of the time (city council,high school etc). I need to be a better Christian and not judge you. God forgive us of our sins, yours and mine. I hope you find peace. Maybe we(the people who don't agree with you) need to find a different way to voice our concerns than making mean comments.

     
  • Beau McElhattan posted at 6:57 pm on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Beau McElhattan Posts: 87

    See you all on the 22nd.

     
  • Beau McElhattan posted at 6:56 pm on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Beau McElhattan Posts: 87

    See you all on the 22nd.

     
  • Kaysea posted at 2:44 pm on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Kaysea Posts: 234

    Been there You failed to post comments and sayings from Beau. I will remind you.

    1. threaten to record and video people and post it on the web.


    2. called people not open minded


    3. called people a coward.


    4. called people pathetic.

    5. called people morans.


    6. told people they were not qualified to voice an opinion.

    7. religion bashing.

     
  • Kaysea posted at 12:54 pm on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Kaysea Posts: 234

    Been there I call it like I see it. I am not the one who has a protective order on me. I have never been in jail. I have never harmed anyone, I have never been drunk. I have never done drugs. I love God, my country (even if its in alot of trouble), my family and friends. I don't care if you trust me or not. People that know me, know that I am a good person. I do question people like you and Beau. You do't give us any comments that would make us believe you wouldn't stab us in the back. I am open and honest and say what I feel and believe. I feel Beau is making problems just to be making problems and be in the spotlight. He isn't trying to do it to better our city.

     
  • Bobby P posted at 12:05 pm on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Bobby P Posts: 156

    "On a personal note, I wouldn't trust you behind me for one second."

    you are starting to sound like Beau, and thats not a good thing.

     
  • BeenThere posted at 11:56 am on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    BeenThere Posts: 35

    Kaysea--pot to kettle, pot to kettle!!

    "They" are condescending and arrogant? Please. Re-read your self-righteous posts:

    1. "They" need a shrink"
    2. "they" are snakes
    3. "they" are lacking in intelligence

    ..but you will "continue to prayl" for their "mental health".

    You know, it's arrogant, condescending Christians like you who give them a bad name!
    On a personal note, I wouldn't trust you behind me for one second.

     
  • Happinessisthebestrevenge posted at 11:42 am on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Happinessisthebestrevenge Posts: 5

    Another characteristic of an abuser is their talent for BLAMING their victims or other people. Always someone else's fault.

     
  • Happinessisthebestrevenge posted at 11:37 am on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Happinessisthebestrevenge Posts: 5

    I agree with Kaysea and Reality.
    Usually those people who actually ARE abusive go out of their way in great detail to try and prove how they arn't abusive and to discredit/humiliate/embarrass their victims. Beau insists that his ex-wife lied and lied and lied. The cops and the administrators were so ignorant and believed all the lies she supposedly spread.
    PO's are not easy to obtain or keep in place for month after month. Have no doubts that his family did suffer quite alot for a long time. More than an OSCN search would show.

     
  • Kaysea posted at 10:31 am on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Kaysea Posts: 234

    You don't have to be a shrink to see Beau needs a shrink. My heart aches for what he is putting his family through. People who think they are always right and everyone else is wrong are hard to live with. They are condescending and arrogant. He does crave attention and that is why he uses his real name, Reality is correct. The rest of us aren't in need of all the attention. Reminds me a little of Casey Anthony. ME ME ME To heck with anyone else. I have mentioned about our soldiers who died and he never said a word about what a tragedy our nation is facing. Most people would have made some kind of comment, not Beau. Its not about him. He is NARCISTIC. If I remember correctly, he wanted to know if any other issue ever got this many comments. That speaks volumes.

     
  • Reality posted at 9:28 am on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Reality Posts: 104

    In response to him whining again about people not using their real names, BeauBeau is like the little kid that gets no attention so he acts out in a bad way just so that SOMEBODY...ANYBODY...will pay attention to him. I can't speak for others, but I don't use my real name because I am not DESPERATELY seeking attention.


     
  • Reality posted at 9:20 am on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Reality Posts: 104

    If you haven't caught on yet, here is Beau's issue and gameplan.

    Beau's ex-wife, Robin, basically told a lot of people (including law enforcement and school officials) that Beau is a less than great person to be around. Beau has decided to prove her wrong by being obnoxious to everybody.

    He sends letters to school and government officials making demands. If they don't meet his demands, the threat is that he will use free legal groups like Freedom From Religion Foundation to force the City to waste taxpayer dollars to defend their actions. It is more likely that the City will decide not to waste taxpayer dollars, even when they are not doing anything wrong, because there are better uses for those dollars. This will make Beau feel like he won and was right, but he doesn't actually put up his own money in the fight.

    Somehow, this will disprove all the bad things that Robin said about him.

     
  • Reality posted at 9:19 am on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Reality Posts: 104

    If you haven't caught on yet, here is Beau's issue and gameplan.

    Beau's ex-wife, Robin, basically told a lot of people (including law enforcement and school officials) that Beau is a less that great person to be around. Beau has decided to prove her wrong by making being obnoxious to everybody.

    He sends letters to school and government officials making demands. If they don't meet his demands, the threat is that he will use free legal groups like Freedom From Religion Foundation to force the City to waste taxpayer dollars to defend their actions. It is more likely that the City will decide not to waste taxpayer dollars, even when they are not doing anything wrong, because there are better uses for those dollars. This will make Beau feel like he won and was right, but he doesn't actually put up his own money in the fight.

    Somehow, this will disprove all the bad things that Robin said about him.

     
  • Kaysea posted at 10:08 pm on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Kaysea Posts: 234

    Beau The only person or thing inciting discord is you. Everything was fine until you came into the picture. Please do us a favor and never move back to Sand Springs. We don't need troublemakers like you in our city. You seriously need to seek some professional help. This isn't the way you contribute to benefit and help your community.

     
  • Bobby P posted at 9:49 pm on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Bobby P Posts: 156

    MikeInRaleigh,

    try reading the 1st Amendment, its really short, and you might understand the reference to them not being in Congress that you said was moronic. if you can insult Mayor Burdge by saying what he said was moronic then i can insult you by pointing out that what you said was stupid because you don't know what the 1st Amendment says yet you talk about forgetting 8th grade civics. if you can't take it then don't dish it out. if you can't understand that point then you need to stop posting on this article because you are only going to embarass yourself.


    Beau,

    all you have done is cry and whine about the counselors praying, so i'm calling you a whiner and a crybaby, if the shoe fits. by the way my name is Bobby Painter, for some reason you want to know people's names, so there is mine. a lot of things incite discord, should we ban them all? again i say stop your whining.

     
  • A Voice of Reason posted at 9:37 pm on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    A Voice of Reason Posts: 31

    I hardly think the councilors are inciting discord by praying. Besides theres an open door, step outside if it really bothers you. It's always the second item on the agenda, if you come in two minutes after 7, well, its over and you never had to hear it. Somehow, I don't really think its the prayer that bothers you. Perhaps you have been hurt in church before. I have. But people are people whether they are saved or not and we all need grace and mercy. You just have to forgive them and move on.

    Not sure why you would expect a Christian to pray to another God. Did you really expect Burdge to pray to something other than Jehovah? Besides there are non believers on the council, when they pray it is up to them to pray to who they would like.

    Others have brought up the point that they are far greater things these councilors to do than worry about someone not liking how they prayed. Such as economic development and jobs. My advice would be to let it go.

     
  • Beau McElhattan posted at 9:29 pm on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Beau McElhattan Posts: 87

    Bobby,
    Each time a sectarian prayer is invoked, it has the potential to incite discord. Hence, my exposing the unconstitutional activities of this council.

    Seriously, man.. leave your name-calling at home. Only degrades your argument.

     
  • MikeInRaleigh posted at 9:26 pm on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    MikeInRaleigh Posts: 14

    Sorry, I don't get your point, Bobby P. But, thanks for the attempt to insult me.

     
  • Bobby P posted at 8:38 pm on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Bobby P Posts: 156

    Beau,

    i asked for an example of the counselors using prayer to inflame and incite discord, not what you find annoying, its very telling that you can't understand the difference. i find a lot of things annoying, mainly you right now, but you don't see me crying and whining about them like you. i think its time to grow up Beau, nobody likes a crybaby.

     
  • Beau McElhattan posted at 8:22 pm on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Beau McElhattan Posts: 87

    Bobby,
    The Councilors probably didn't realize that they incite discord until I confronted them on it. When I lived in SS (and when I do in the future when I move back) I attended quite a few past CC meetings. They don't realize it, but it annoys me when a sectarian prayer is offered, and it probably offends others, too. And this is when I was a closet agnostic, so I never said anything about it. Of course, that has changed. When I was in high school our social studies teacher took us to a council meeting. Curiously enough, Burdge was a member way back then. I remember thinking quietly to myself that the prayer offered then invoked only one deity. That of the Christian religion. But teenagers have other, more pressing concerns, so I didn't really care then. Point is, this has been going on for far too long, and it needs to stop.

    You will see changes coming to the SS CC. They will do things differently. They will concede to precedent set elsewhere and will come into line with the Constitution.

    @kaysea
    Capitalism is the core of our economy. The ignorant liquor laws in Oklahoma are antiquated. A while back, I forgot it was Sunday and forgot I couldn't purchase my favorite German wine. That is annoying.
    I checked and I believe there are only two liquor stores in Sand Springs. Competition can drive prices down and provide a better bang for the buck for Sandites who wish to consume wine/spirits/whatever.

     
  • Bobby P posted at 8:02 pm on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Bobby P Posts: 156

    danny,

    example of the Sand Springs City Counsel using prayer to inflame and incite discord please. i'll wait while you can't provide one.

     
  • Kaysea posted at 7:30 pm on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Kaysea Posts: 234

    Danny We do not need anymore places for people to get liquor.

     
  • danny posted at 5:13 pm on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    danny Posts: 1

    Sure, the city council in Sand Springs can continue to have sectarian prayers said for a little longer. But there are increasing numbers of atheists and freethinkers who are poised to stop this unnecessary practice. These prayers are used to inflame and incite discord. To the city council: get off of your knees and get to work to settle liquor licenses and other business. Keep religion in churches and the home.

     
  • Beau McElhattan posted at 3:54 pm on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Beau McElhattan Posts: 87

    @Kaysea
    http://www.beaumcelhattan.com/reason/2011/07/30/meet-raymond-gene-phillips-a-deaf-homeless-man-in-tulsa/

    I assure you that I have concerns other than what goes on in SS.

     
  • Bobby P posted at 3:52 pm on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Bobby P Posts: 156

    MikeinRaleigh...

    well actually the 1st Amendment does specifically say "Congress shall make no law...", i will let you finish the rest, its only one sentence so i think you can handle it.

     
  • MikeInRaleigh posted at 1:27 pm on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    MikeInRaleigh Posts: 14

    "We are not memers of Congress". Wow, you might as well have said "we forgot 8th grade civics". It doesn't matter if you're in Congress or not. State-sponsored religion applies to all levels of government. What a completely moronic statement.

     
  • Kaysea posted at 10:57 am on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Kaysea Posts: 234

    Beau I haven't seen one comment from you on more serious issues like the economy,wars,homeless,famine and hundreds of others around the world and in the United States. God Bless all the soldiers families that died recently and the ones that have died since this all started. These are the issues that need to be addressed. This country is in major trouble and your complaining about a prayer that last maybe a minute and no one is forcing you to take part of. If you don't like, step away for a minute. I would gladly do that if I wasn't comfortable with something and afterwards get down with the business at hand. Grow Up. People as a society are never going to agree on every issue. You can't have everything your way. The majority of people don't have a problem with this, so move on.

     
  • Kaysea posted at 8:50 am on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Kaysea Posts: 234

    South Sand Springs Thank you. We the citizens of Sand Springs and the United
    States have far more serious problems that need our attention. So what if our city council has a prayer that last all of a minute. I have no problem bringing in different faiths to the meetings. I thank you for the way you would handle this issue. Our country needs all the help it can get. Your children should be proud of you for giving them the right to choose and not forcing them to believe the same way as you. Beau good learn alot from you.

     
  • South Sand Springs posted at 8:19 am on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    South Sand Springs Posts: 27

    I have recently lost faith and have become agnostic. I know that this is not a popular belief, but it is my belief and I am free to have this belief. On the other hand, my wife continues her faith in Christ, and I allow my children to participate with church functions. I believe I should allow my children to make up their own minds on their faith and beliefs, but I do give moral advice on good citizenship to them. Where I disagree with Beau is that I do not go around imposing my opinions on the public, and wanting things done my way or not at all. It does not bother me that others have religion, good for them. If I were to attend a council meeting, I could easily observe a moment to myself or step out during the prayer. I think Beau need not worry himself about an invocation at a council meeting, as long as business is getting done. Worry about yourself.
    Beau does not speak for all agnostics.

     
  • Kaysea posted at 7:35 am on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Kaysea Posts: 234

    I do have an opinion of you and it isn't very nice, but I won't go there because I am a Christian. I will continue to pray for myself to be to be a better person and try not to judge others that are lacking in intelligence and feelings for other people. I will continue to pray for your well being and hope that you beome a better person also. Have a good day.

     
  • Beau McElhattan posted at 7:12 am on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Beau McElhattan Posts: 87

    @kaysea
    Did you have an opinion on the Mayor's letter to me and the changes coming to your town?

     
  • Kaysea posted at 6:43 am on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Kaysea Posts: 234

    Beau SS-girl has the right of freedom of speech just as much as you do. How dare you say she is not qualified to speak on this subject. What qualifications do you
    have that make you an expert? You don't even live in Sand Springs. Go back under the rock you came from where all snakes belong, You are the one that can't have a discussion and keep it on a adult and civil level. What is that saying "you can't go into battle of intelligence with an unarmed man". You are unarmed! I will continue to pray for your mental health.

     
  • Beau McElhattan posted at 10:04 pm on Sun, Aug 7, 2011.

    Beau McElhattan Posts: 87

    @ss-girl
    Hiding behind an anonymous screen name claiming to know something about family law hardly qualifies you to voice a concrete opinion on my specific issues with the legal system. Therefore, I reject your opinion. I am done discussing it. This is about the First Amendment's establishment clause in regards to recent events with the Sand Springs city council.

    You misunderstand my intent with council prayer.
    As I grow weary of restating my opinion and background on this, just visit my website and read my opinions. Do research on your own. Read the letter the mayor sent me in the link posted earlier. Read the substantiation they sent. Then research recent decisions regarding similar issues.

    Despite the title of the SS Leader article (which is apparently the only thing people read), you will soon see changes in content when it comes to invocations at their council meetings.

     
  • ss-girl posted at 9:43 pm on Sun, Aug 7, 2011.

    ss-girl Posts: 12

    Firstly, in reference to my last post, you are correct... the charge on oscn.net was dismissed, I had read another one of the 7 files you have on OSCN and got mixed up. And you are correct again, about me never have gone through the court's PO filing system... I am, however very well versed in how PO's are processed/handeled . Typically, one does not last for several months without very good reason, and typically if someone makes such false accusations against a person, and the courts recognize that, they will have charges pressed against them. Doesn't appear that that occured.


    Also, i'm curious to know what you are wanting to come of this whole ordeal... are you hoping for some written court rule dictating when our council members can pray? Or perhaps some written document saying which god they can pray to at what time? It's becoming more and more apparant that this is the case. Having a court document dictating if/when/where someone can pray is the biggest anti-separation of church and state thing i've ever heard someone propose in this town!!

     
  • BeenThere posted at 9:00 pm on Sun, Aug 7, 2011.

    BeenThere Posts: 35

    I think it's a great idea, and I'm going to invite one of the muslim clerics in Tulsa to open one of the meetings. Allah Akbar

     
  • Beau McElhattan posted at 7:46 pm on Sun, Aug 7, 2011.

    Beau McElhattan Posts: 87

    This is a good start. I think...

    I see one of two outcomes. Visiting "spiritual leaders" will be asked to conduct the invocation (all of which will be one brand of Christianity or another) and it will be business as usual. Or the invocations will be nonsectarian in nature from these visiting spiritual leaders.

    If they continue to be sectarian in nature for the most part, then read the second last paragraph of this article:
    "At the end of July, the U.S. 4th Circuit Court of Appeals decided 2-1 that a North Carolina County Commission violated the Establishment Clause because the majority of prayers delivered were specifically Christian and did not mention any other deity."

    The questions remain, however. Will citizens who think this is ridiculous be given the opportunity to leave during the invocation?

    Will the city manager/mayor go out of their way to invite non-christian "spiritual leaders"? How about a Wiccan? Or maybe a self-declared witch? Perhaps a satanist? A pastafarian? Buddhist? Jew? Atheist? Muslim?

    Do you all not see how quickly it can get stupid and what a waste of time any kind of invocation from any religion is useless in a secular government?

    This has been my point all along. Government serves all, not just Christians.

    Read the letter sent to me by the mayor and the supporting documentation he sent here:
    http://www.beaumcelhattan.com/reason/2011/08/07/sand-springs-responds/

     
  • Patience posted at 7:04 pm on Sun, Aug 7, 2011.

    Patience Posts: 1

    When one woman, had prayers taken out of the schools, no one spoke up for prayers to remain in school. I thank God, yes, God that the Sand Springs City Council didn't let one man's opinion keep them from doing what they see is right. Thank you, City Council. I'll continue to keep you and the City of Sand Springs in my prayers.

     
  • ss-girl posted at 5:10 pm on Sun, Aug 7, 2011.

    ss-girl Posts: 12

    Amen!!!

     
  • Kaysea posted at 1:37 pm on Sun, Aug 7, 2011.

    Kaysea Posts: 234

    Prayers are answered.

     
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